In this episode, we delve into the importance of diverse skill sets in cybersecurity, the challenges of imposter syndrome, and the significance of self-care and team dynamics in high-stress environments. We provide valuable insights on how to stay updated on emerging technologies like AI and offer advice for those looking to start their journey in this field. Tune in to this insightful conversation to gain valuable perspectives on cybersecurity, leadership, and personal growth.
Guest: Camille Stewart Gloster, Former Deputy National Cyber Director for Technology & Ecosystem, Award-winning Strategist & Attorney
Website: https://camillestewart.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/camillestewartesq
X (Twitter): https://www.twitter.com/camilleesq
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/camilleesq/
Host: Dr. Rebecca Wynn
On ITSPmagazine 👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/rebecca-wynn
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Episode Description
In this episode of the Soulful CXO, host Dr. Rebecca Wynn sits down with Camille Stewart Gloster, an award-winning strategist and former Deputy National Cyber Director for Technology and Ecosystem at the White House. They discuss Camille's journey from being an attorney to working in cybersecurity as the Global Head of Product Security Strategy at Google and the Head of Security Policy and Election Integrity for Google Play and Android, eventually landing significant government roles. They delve into the importance of diverse skill sets in cybersecurity, the challenges of imposter syndrome, and the significance of self-care and team dynamics in high-stress environments. Camille also provides valuable insights on staying updated on emerging technologies like AI and offers advice for those looking to start their journey in this field. Tune in to this insightful conversation to gain valuable perspectives on cybersecurity, leadership, and personal growth.
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Resources
National Cyber Workforce and Education Strategy
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/NCWES-2023.07.31.pdf
National Cybersecurity Strategy
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/National-Cybersecurity-Strategy-2023.pdf
Executive Order on the Safe, Secure, and Trustworthy Development and Use of Artificial Intelligence
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2023/10/30/executive-order-on-the-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-development-and-use-of-artificial-intelligence/
Safer Together Inclusive Cybersecurity
https://www.fdd.org/memo/2023/04/18/safer-together-inclusive-cybersecurity/
Preventing Foreign Adversaries from Exfiltrating National Security Technologies Through Bankruptcy Proceedings
https://jnslp.com/2019/07/29/full-court-press/
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Unlocking the Key Skills for Success | A Conversation with Camille Stewart Gloster | The Soulful CXO Podcast with Dr. Rebecca Wynn
[00:00:00] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Welcome to the Soulful CXO. I'm your host, Dr. Rebecca Wynn. We are pleased to have with us today, Camille Stewart Gloster. Camille is an award winning strategist, attorney, and executive whose cross cutting perspective on complex technology, cyber, national security, and foreign policy issues, has landed her significant roles in leading government and private sector companies.
She is the recent, Former Deputy National Cyber Director for Technology and Ecosystem for the White House. She advised the President and led technology security, supply chain security, data security, emerging technology, and cyber workforce and education efforts for the Office of the National Cyber Director (OCND).
Camille's leadership in developing and implementing the 2023 National Cyber Workforce and Education Strategy and her integral part in drafting and implementing the National Cyber Security Strategy, the AI Executive Order, and the U. S. National Standards Strategy [00:01:00] for Critical and Emerging Technology are truly inspiring.
Additionally, she sat on the White House AI Council and the Open Source Software Security Initiative. Prior roles include Being the Global Head of Product Security Strategy at Google and the Head of Security Policy and Election Integrity for Google Play and Android. Camille's professional achievements have earned her recognition from a multiple of entities throughout her career and garnered respect and admiration.
She was selected as a 2023 Business Insider's Top 100 in AI, 2021 SANS Difference Maker, 2021 Microsoft Security Changemaker of the Year, and the 2019 Cybersecurity Woman of the Year in the Barrier Breaker category. Camille, it is so great seeing you again. Welcome to the show.
[00:01:53] Camille Stewart Gloster: Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to this.
[00:01:57] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: It's very rare that I have somebody [00:02:00] who says they're an attorney, worked for the White House. and somehow navigated a career through cybersecurity. Can you explain to us what that journey looked like and how, you got to be the great fantastic woman that you are in cyber?
[00:02:15] Camille Stewart Gloster: I appreciate that. Yeah. So my dad is a computer scientist.
So I grew up on technology. I used to sit in the back of his computer science courses that he used to teach. Um, my parents put me in Russian and. Started teaching me VB Basic in kindergarten. And so I really developed a love for technology, but by some chance, I also just decided I was going to be a lawyer.
I used to make my parents sign contracts every time they made me promises and really just was, you know, Keen on becoming an attorney, um, so in law school, I thought, you know, maybe that means that I'll protect other people's technology. I'll be an intellectual property attorney, but quickly realized that that wasn't enough for me.
I really wanted to use my technical acumen, my technical [00:03:00] expertise, and I got recruited to a cyber security company after law school and the rest kind of fortuitously came together.
[00:03:09] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: How did you find yourself in the White House? I've always said that I want to work on a council. I want to do something like that, but a lot of us don't even know how to get involved besides doing NIST. I would tell people out there, get on the NIST initiatives, read the drafts and stuff like that, which I also do, but how did, you get from Google to having opportunity to be in the White House?
[00:03:27] Camille Stewart Gloster: Yeah, so I worked, um, in the Obama administration at the Department of Homeland Security, and a lot of my colleagues from the Obama administration were headed back to government. Um, and I got pulled into that administration because they were trying to build this cyber security policy office in the Department of Homeland Security's office, main policy shop, and, um, they were looking for people who actually had that expertise. So they pulled me in. I met a bunch of great people and did a bunch of [00:04:00] really interesting work and, um, remained really connected in the cyber security community. And when the Office of the National Cyber Director was passed in legislation, I started writing articles about.
How important it was and just, you know, highlighting how this investment could really change the national and quite frankly, the international cyber landscape. Um, when, uh, former director, Chris Inglis was named to the seat. He and I had been having a lot of actual, you know, mentorship conversations. I developed this program that he was a part of and him and I were connected.
And I. I like to say that I basically spent 6 months to a year interviewing for the job, but I didn't know, you know, in our conversations, we talk about things like my article about ONCD and what I thought the office should focus on and what the opportunities were my passions and cyber the work I was doing at Google, all of these things and so when he started the office, um, and started to.[00:05:00]
Map out a plan for what it would cover, what the divisions would look like and who his deputies would be. He reached out to me and asked if I would come in and be one of those deputies to lead the emerging tech and supply chain security work that I had been doing at Google and other places. But also I had developed a couple of initiatives on the side, like share the mic and cyber and next gen that tech that really focused on.
Cyber workforce, the national security workforce and diversifying them. And so he asked if I could also bring that expertise, that experience into helping to lead the cyber workforce work and to draft a national strategy. So that's how I got to the White House.
[00:05:40] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: I find that it's interesting because people ask me, why can't we really get qualified people?
To, to go ahead and be CISOs or CIOs or CTOs or in strategy work. And I say, a lot of us are out there, they're just not reaching out to us. Or, you know, you can be dismissed. I would tell you, I've had interviews before, they're like, [00:06:00] Oh, we don't usually even interview people like you. You just get dismissed from the get go.
Why do you think that's, that's such a challenge in that people don't. Take a moment to like really listen to a person's background like we are right now to give them an opportunity Regardless of their male or female or if they've had education or not formal education to get them workforce I think that's that's really lacking right now in our field and it's gonna hurt us as we go forward in AI and emerging Technology because you have to think outside the box, really, to get leaders in that field.
[00:06:30] Camille Stewart Gloster: Yeah, a lot of the work that I was doing with the National Cyber Workforce and Education Strategy was focused on opening the aperture on who the candidates can and should be for cybersecurity and technology roles.
Um, what we've seen is it's easier for companies to use an archetype of a perfect engineer, strategist, et cetera, and write a job description based on that. They went to this university, they have these skills, degrees or these certifications, et [00:07:00] cetera. But to your point, there are so many different ways to get the skills and expertise necessary to do well in a position.
And so one of the things that we did was focus on the skills and encourage companies and organizations, the government itself to really hone in on what skills are necessary to do the job. Well, what things can you teach versus neat? The person needs to come already having a knowledge of. And tweak your job description so that people don't self select out and so that your proxies, your recruitment team, your HR team don't exclude people who could actually be great candidates for a role because there's a lot of opportunity and pulling in folks who have been trained at a boot camp or have some other non traditional path into cyber security to your. Point of in your 1st question, right? You might not have looked at my resume and said, this lawyer would be the right person to do all of the cyber security work.
And I've spent much of my career showing people just how important it [00:08:00] is for the space to be multidisciplinary and that, you know. A cybersecurity degree or a computer science degree aren't the only degrees that make somebody technical enough or strategic enough or knowledgeable enough in general about cybersecurity issues to be able to do a given role.
[00:08:19] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Yeah. I think part of the disservice right now actually is AI. We have, there's a lot of companies out there who will say, put your resume in, put the job description in. And let us go ahead and tweak it so you can try and go ahead and get past the AT system or HR. I usually, if I'm helping a company try and pick candidates, I'm like, I want to see all the candidates that you guys dismissed.
And usually in there, I find the gems. I tell people you have to watch out for that. And then I find in interviewing, You don't really know how to interview us very well. Um, from really performance digging down, like, what did you really do on a project? What didn't you do in a project? What energized you and stuff like that?
So it [00:09:00] seems like there's almost needs, like you said, initially, when you were talking about how you got your role, it was really about. Networking, which I've, it's never really been for, I've been the one person you do the resume through the door, but it seems like more and more in our field, you really need to, to network, be able to writing, be able to speak to people so they can actually see what you really know in practice.
Are you finding that more that people need to be doing that more in our field?
[00:09:26] Camille Stewart Gloster: I always encourage networking, but I do not want networking to become a gatekeeper for getting into a role, because what ends up happening is that. You only are able to find people as far as your network reaches and or whatever host of circumstances that you haven't met this person who is submitting their application organically, who's entering the field just doesn't happen to be in your circles might mean that you might bypass someone who.
Could be an excellent candidate. You should be able to just cold submit your resume and get a genuine [00:10:00] consideration for a role. Um, but networking does help. It does help clarify. What experiences you have, what knowledge you have and so what I hope is that this focus on skills will allow for. Whatever tools you use, whether it's AI to sort through, whether it's recruiters who take your instructions and then try to help you sort through a bunch of candidates and I'll help you actually focus on what skills and aptitude someone might have and also get more hands on, um, Skill demonstrations as part of the application process.
I prefer for you to take a quiz or have to build a something to demonstrate your skills and ability than for you to submit a piece of paper that doesn't actually, um, tell me everything about you as a candidate.
[00:10:50] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: I was asked this other day, I think that someone who has a common base knowledge is not the same as performance based on being able to put it in practice.
There's going to be a bigger shift, just like you just mentioned where that [00:11:00] performance based and what does that looks like? Certification fatigue right now is going on in the industry.
[00:11:06] Camille Stewart Gloster: And certifications don't necessarily indicate, you know, Um, that someone is or is not qualified.
The absence of a certification might just mean that you didn't have the resources to go take the test. You know, so there's so many reasons why the certifications are maybe a helpful indicator, but not the only indicator.
[00:11:27] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Yeah, it's the same with where people, there's companies who, did you go to college?
Not necessarily as important as what you can really do. And again, it's getting out of those biases of only educated, um, only having certain certifications. I'm getting back to what can you really do as a professional? I see that going forward is going to be more of the, the way that people are going to look at.
[00:11:50] Camille Stewart Gloster: Yeah, no, and I'm so glad you mentioned the college piece because that's actually one of the benefits of the cyber security industry is that you don't need a college degree. There are some that you do, but there are a number of roles where you don't [00:12:00] a boot camp class or some kind of training are great proxies for you to learn the skill sets that you need.
And, um, 1 of the things that I was leading in the federal government was. But really a focus on clarifying when you actually needed a degree and when you didn't. And so like alleviating those degree requirements so more people could work for federal contractors, work for the federal government to remove some of those barriers to entry.
[00:12:28] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: And, just for those who are trying to get into the field, who might be listening, there's cyber warfare ranges. So there's groups out there and what they do is they set up, um, servers and stuff up in the cloud. And so you can practice . They do capture the flag, things like that. You do have over in the Git labs . Projects that you can actually go ahead and, participate in. Um, and NIST, for those who are out there professionally, you can go ahead and help them review the drafts and things that are coming up and so like that. So there's other ways out there that you can show that you're [00:13:00] paying it forward and you're trying to learn beyond the traditional place.
[00:13:04] Camille Stewart Gloster: Yeah, that's great. There's so many ways to dive in. Even there are cyber policy focused, um, games like the Cyber 9 12 that you can go in and play a position in the federal or national landscape and respond to a critical cyber incident. That's a really fun one.
[00:13:23] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Oh, that's great. Um, love that. I love that out there.
And I would just tell you on education wise, edX, E D X is where you can go to MIT and Harvard and places like that. And you can go ahead and get certificates at very cheap, prices . I just did, um, business leaders, AI, um, certification course, um, which is really good. There's a lot of them out there, but there's other non traditional ways that you can go out there and get help. There's a plethora of classes out there in those institutions that are, they're free.
I want to circle into, back into going into the government, being at Google and how you have successfully [00:14:00] dealt with, , imposter syndrome, and feeling that you are enough and that you are here because of what you can bring to the table.
How have you been able to navigate that successfully? Cause I know going into new positions, that's always tough to feel like, Hey, should I really be here and I should be there in a room. And a lot of people don't take that chance because they feel like they're not enough. And I tell people out there, you are enough.
[00:14:24] Camille Stewart Gloster: Yeah, I think that's such an important message to remind people that their unique set of skills and qualifications. Are exactly why they're in the position and that's usually what I remind myself of. Anytime that I'm starting to feel unsure or, um. Unclear about why I'm in a place, it usually comes back to my unique perspective on the issues.
Um, like I said, cybersecurity is multidisciplinary and to be able to understand the people dynamic, understand the legal dynamics, the societal dynamics as well as the technical. Is a coming together that I [00:15:00] bring. Um, layered over my experience as a child of immigrants and having, you know, grown up in Ohio and all of these varied and different experiences make it such that I see the issues.
I see the opportunities. I see the potential threats very differently. And so, usually that's what I remind myself. If ever, I feel unsure and encourage people to do the same that that understanding of who you are and what you bring is something that can be anchoring, even in the most, intense and imposter syndrome inducing environments.
But, um, I try not to lean into imposter syndrome. I try to lean into the, the, the, the pieces of myself that have gotten me into that room.
[00:15:44] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: What do you do when you do feel overwhelmed that you feel like you're not enough or you just don't get in? I know I have mentors. I know I can reach out to Jim Routh. I know I can reach out to Theresa Payton and I can reach out to people like that (1) who want to walk through it and (2) them to remind me that [00:16:00] I am there for a reason or purpose.
So do you have mentors or something like that, that you also reach out to, to try and help you navigate your career?
[00:16:07] Camille Stewart Gloster: I do. I have some great mentors. Um, Melanie Teplinsky, Chris Inglis, Suzanne Spaulding, a number of folks that I've encountered over the course of my career and in the industry. But the other thing that I actually do is make sure that I have a community outside of cyber.
That I can turn back to it helps you remember who you are. It helps you step outside of this very, um, overwhelming environment, right? Cyber security is usually a bunch of people who are very passionate about helping people very passionate about the technology and that. Passion that drive, um, to protect others or to solve really complex challenges, um, makes this a, gives a sense of urgency and also makes it a really intense space.
And so sometimes stepping outside of it, so that you get a broader perspective on the world, you remember other things that matter. [00:17:00] Help me step back into it.
[00:17:02] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: I think too, is, is even going to. Other webinars and things like that. Um, in your career, I'll do data analytics. I do sales and client services .
I listen to other perspectives and what's on their heart to try and help me do my job a little better. Yeah. That's one thing too. How do you keep balance? I know you and I were talking before the program that I play in five groups here musically, I play trombone in several groups and that's how I keep, keep my balance.
It's hard to play trombone and the philharmonic when you sit there and you're thinking about work, uh, kind of get in trouble for that. How do you keep your balance?
[00:17:39] Camille Stewart Gloster: I just have to say you glossed over that like it was a small thing. It is no small thing to be playing the philharmonic. So that is amazing.
I wish my focus areas outside of work were that impressive. I like to work out. I like to spend time with family and friends. Um, I like to. I actually liked a podcast. [00:18:00] I used to have a podcast called Hustle Over Entitlement with a friend. Um, that's a lot of fun. I can't really do it while I'm in government, so we'll see what happens on this side of things.
But, um, I usually like to pull myself out of industry work and spend time with the people I care about most and get my body moving and be outdoors.
[00:18:21] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Well, that makes sense. Cause I think one of the things that's always. To keep in forefront, that's a real struggle, is resiliency. And then we say like the number one resiliency thing that you can do is, besides getting enough water in a day, that's number one.
Your brain. Functions on water. It doesn't function on soda. Um, but the other thing is getting, getting enough sleep, um, is really tough and trying to control your, your cortisol levels are really big. And I know you just said that about exercising and being out, but how, how do you find balancing that when you do have jobs that are very, very stressful at times and are pulling a lot of hours?
How do you [00:19:00] navigate that? And how do you navigate your teams to be able to do that? Cause if our resilience are down, we can't handle critical situations.
[00:19:06] Camille Stewart Gloster: Yeah, I think recognizing the importance of that self care and promoting it amongst your team and demonstrating that is really important.
And so I try to do that as much as I can, even if it's to carve out the workout in the middle of the day, as opposed to at the beginning of the day or at the end of the day. Um, I try to make sure that happens. And I narrate that for my teams, make sure that they know that they can create space. Um, I'm very supportive of.
The plethora of other things that are happening in their lives and creating an environment where there's some measure of redundancy. So if someone does need to step away, whether it's for a short time, an hour or for a week to take care of some kind of family obligation or to take care of themselves, that we're able to do that.
And people don't feel so burdened by the work that they feel like they can't be a person first.
[00:19:53] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: It's kind of a challenge right now because a lot of times people feel like they can't take their vacation. If I take to my vacation, they're going to look at that. [00:20:00] Maybe someone else can do my job or they're going to look about like, okay, we're looking at headcount.
Um, and that person can be, be laid off, especially with technology being laid off so much. So people have a fear of taking vacation. I think as a leader, you need to really instill that. You really need to take your vacation and you're going to be okay. Do you find that as well too? I know you've worked for big corporations, but in, in startups and medium sized companies, there's a lot of fear that if I even take a second off, or if I don't work those 14 or 16 hour days, I'm going to be out of work.
And I do tell people if that's going to be the mandate, look at the holistic-ness of your life, and that's probably not the right company for you. And it might be, not be the right type of sector or companies for you. That's one thing I advise people.
[00:20:43] Camille Stewart Gloster: That's yes, right? I people need to look at the environment in which they're working.
Um, I do find that folks can neglect that kind of investment in self taking their vacations, but to our earlier point, it doesn't mean no [00:21:00] serve no positive service for you to be so burnt out that you miss. The indicators that you're supposed to find that you can't string together a coherent sentence, that you can't deliver on the things that are put before you.
And so, you know, as a matter of doing your job well, that's how I frame it often. As a matter of doing your job well, you should take a vacation. You should take care of yourself. And like I said, I think creating an environment where that is not only modeled, but encouraged usually helps. Um, and I'm but I'm not also I'm also not above pulling someone to the side and finding out why they're not taking vacation and encouraging them to do that.
But I do think that's really important as leaders for us to invest in our people, because the attrition that comes from burnout is harder on the business. And so you should really invest in taking care of folks.
[00:21:48] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: I'm glad that you mentioned about bringing someone aside and just see if there's something else that's going on.
Unfortunately, we're not always, from an HR perspective, [00:22:00] um, encouraged to do that, but I think that it is smart to kind of see what is going on. They can share with you and then see about those other resources. Is it EAP resources? Is it going ahead and adjusting their schedule? People forget that it takes a lot of time and effort to get the right person in the role and not giving them the grace that they might be really going through a very hard, hard thing.
Be it may be health wise, there's other family constraints and stuff like that. And maybe you just need to make help do an adjustment for three months or six months and keeping that resource for years versus immediately looking at, Oh, we should probably maybe cut this person loose and just find somebody else.
I think the grace of finding out what's, what's going on. So how you can support them. Is the better long, long road, um, for the company. I don't think one misstep should ever cost anybody their livelihood.
[00:22:52] Camille Stewart Gloster: I agree. I mean, people are at the center of this work in so many different ways, so you have to invest in the people on your team, but also remember that [00:23:00] people, how technology shows up in their lives is at the center of being good at cyber security.
And so if you've got that kind of a mentality about the work, you should have it about your own staff and the people.
[00:23:11] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: One of the things that you've done very well over the plethora of stuff is being able to hone and create. Teams that work synergy wise together and being able to look at a project and as you're part of the whole and not part of one.
We do end up getting a lot of people who are like, I'm an information hoarder, l look out for myself in the sense that if I have to step over you to get to my next job level, I'm going to do that.
You know, I tell people, I don't like those people in my team, even though if they're rockstar in their job, how do you manage creating good teams over and over again, very successfully. And as much as you can hone out those type of attitudes. Because I think that's the cancer regardless of the amount of work that person can do.
[00:23:55] Camille Stewart Gloster: Yeah, I appreciate that. I, um, I really focus on getting to know [00:24:00] people, which is, I think, another thing that helps with the promoting people taking care of themselves and understanding when people are not performing at their norm, but understanding what people's strengths are, what the mission we are seeking to address is, or the mission we're operating under.
And using that to kind of guide how you piece together a team that has a set of complimentary skills, where everyone can shine by owning something or being or leading with a skill set that they invest into the work, but also can work together and get strength from each other so that we can deliver a holistic perspective.
So, for example. At the, um, at ONCD, while I was at the White House, I focused really on bringing in a deputy that had a strong technical background. She was a cryptographer and another deputy that had, um, an engineering background, but also had worked on the Hill. And so, between the three of us, we had strong technical expertise, um, a bevy of different policy experiences and corporate [00:25:00] experiences, and could be creative about how we address these issues.
The breadth of that mission that we had and, and then I found ways. For their deputies, their deputies, and then the folks on their teams to further complement their skill sets. So, if you didn't have federal executive branch experience, then I want to make sure that your deputy does and can help you navigate moving policy through the executive branch.
How do I make sure that you've got. Intelligence community support someone with that background to make sure that that complements you haven't worked in, you know, big tech, who is going to be able to compliment you in that way. So I really try to get to understand people's skill sets, their interests, their abilities, and use that to create a complimentary environment.
And I think that transparency that. Taking the time to get to know people during the interview process, but also after onboarding helps demonstrate the culture that will be happening in the team, but also helps [00:26:00] elevate folks who would not fit into that kind of culture because they want to do everything, or they don't want to collaborate or, you know, the pieces of the, their personality that might mean that they wouldn't thrive in that environment usually rise to the top.
[00:26:15] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Thank you for looking that way. A lot of times people think about, I'm going to build, um, only people who look like me, who act like me, who think like me. And I tell people, I said, that's not looking holistically on how. This company is going to move through next year and the next year and the next year and next year and next year.
It's about the livelihood of the company, but let's look at a long period of time and if you don't do complimentary sets and you're not looking at succession management and you're not looking about if everybody thinks one dimensionally, you are going to be out of business in a very short period of time.
I think that's very key critical.
[00:26:51] Camille Stewart Gloster: Yeah, I completely agree.
[00:26:54] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: People who are looking at emerging technology, AI, and who haven't really started on [00:27:00] that journey yet, where would you tell them to start so they can go ahead and try to go ahead and keep pace with where technology is going to be going in 2025 and forward?
[00:27:11] Camille Stewart Gloster: Yeah. I mean, there are so many training courses right now on AI and AI as applied to whatever space you're working in. Um, I think that's a good place to start those high level courses that give you an understanding of the technology, how it might be being used currently. Um, where it might head and then really diving into how might you use this in your role?
Um, everybody won't be focused on AI, everyone should have an understanding of AI but everyone won't be focused on AI and so really understanding what you need to know, um, to be proficient. How much you need to know because you're interested in it. Um, and, and marrying that with the courses that you pursue and the, um, opportunities that you engage in.
Also, there is a lot of information floating around in news media about the [00:28:00] trends and companies, some of the regulation that's coming out, um, the technical opportunities, you know, where are their investments? What is the new technology rolling out? When is there a new ChatGPT or whatever? And keeping pace with that is also a good, um, way to stay educated, but also to flag where your interests may lie and where you should make additional investments in training.
[00:28:22] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Our time has totally flown by, so, I thank everybody for joining us on this episode. Please make sure you share the show that you go ahead and you subscribe to it as well. Check out the Soulful CXO Insights newsletter that comes out every other week. I do write an article every other week as well, too.
In the description, you'll find all the contact information and other resources from Camille. Camille, thank you so much for sharing your insights and being on the show.
[00:28:47] Camille Stewart Gloster: Rebecca, thank you so much for such a thoughtful conversation. It was a pleasure.