In this episode, we delve into the fascinating journey of Steven "Cash" Nickerson, from lawyer to successful businessman. He shares insights on negotiation, the Twitter acquisition, and the transformative power of embracing failures. Tune in for practical advice on mastering negotiation and navigating business challenges.
Guest: Cash Nickerson, Chairman & CEO, Nickerson Stoneleigh, Inc
Website: https://cashnickerson.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevencashnickerson/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cashnickersonauthor
Twitter: https://twitter.com/cashnickerson
Host: Dr. Rebecca Wynn
On ITSPmagazine 👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/rebecca-wynn
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Episode Description
In this episode of Soulful CXO, host Dr. Rebecca Wynn sits down with Steven "Cash" Nickerson, Chairman & CEO of Nickerson Stoneleigh, Inc., and President of Cash Nickerson, P.C. With a rich background in law and negotiation consulting, and as an WSJ besting author of eight books, Cash brings a wealth of experience to the conversation. We explore the importance of lifelong learning, engaging the mind, and mastering the human aspects of negotiation. Cash discusses strategies for flipping the script in negotiations, managing relationships, and draws lessons from the high-profile Elon Musk-Twitter acquisition. Discover how to leverage negotiation for business success and learn from the real-world applications of these strategies.
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Resources
The 7 Tensions of Negotiation
https://www.amazon.com/7-Tensions-Negotiation-Cash-Nickerson/dp/1641468505/
Negotiation as a Martial Art: Techniques to Master the Art
https://www.amazon.com/Negotiation-Martial-Art-Techniques-Exchange-ebook/dp/B098LZLWKB/
Navigating Ethics in Cybersecurity
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/navigating-ethics-cybersecurity-dr-rebecca-wynn-soulful-cxo-s02tc/
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Powerful Strategies for Negotiation Success | A Conversation with Cash Nickerson | The Soulful CXO Podcast with Dr. Rebecca Wynn
[00:00:00] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Welcome to the Soulful CXO. I'm your host, Dr. Rebecca Wynn. Please take a moment and like, subscribe, and share the show. We are pleased to have with us today, Stephen Cash Nickerson, a negotiation expert and business leader. His insights and experiences will be invaluable to our discussion on negotiation, business, and personal development.
Cash is the Chairman & CEO of Nickerson Stoneleigh, Inc., a private investment firm in Dallas, Texas, and President of Cash Nickerson, P.C., a law and negotiation consulting firm. His illustrious career includes roles as Chairman of North America for AKKA Technologies, SE, and President, CFO, and General Counsel of PDS Tech, Inc.
He serves on the Advisory Board of the School of Law and the International Council of the Whitney R. Harris World Law Institute, is an award-winning author, [00:01:00] a highly sought-after speaker on negotiation and the economy, and an adjunct professor at Washington University in St. Louis, where he teaches business lawyering and negotiation.
Cash is so great. Seeing you again. Welcome to the show.
[00:01:14] Cash Nickerson: Thank you, Rebecca. It's great to be here.
[00:01:16] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: How did you get started through school, becoming a lawyer and then finding out negotiation was something that you really enjoyed. And then, , writing, I think, is it eight books now on it?
How did you go through that? What's that journey even look like?
[00:01:31] Cash Nickerson: That's a great question. I, I guess, you know, uh, I've always been an entrepreneur and, you know, I was actually, my middle name comes from JC Penny. People may not realize it, but, uh, JC Penny's middle name was Cash and the full name was James Cash Penny.
And if I was going to name that store, I would have called it cash penny, but it became JC penny. My mother was demonstrating vacuum cleaners, uh, back when they weighed about 200 pounds, 800, eight [00:02:00] months pregnant with me to get some extra money and found out his middle name was cash and thought, Hey, maybe, you know, maybe.
So, uh, I, I knew I was destined to be an entrepreneur and had a paper out when I was young. And, uh, and then, you know, when I went to college, even though I majored in philosophy and English. I did entrepreneurial pursuits long before it was popular on college campuses. And my roommate and I, uh, went into a refrigerator rental business.
So that we rented refrigerators to students on campus, and we did that very successfully. And we actually kind of put somebody much more experienced than us, you know, out of business there, and they came back and approached us with a deal to say, hey, why don't you work with us on refrigerators? And neither has read the contract very carefully.
And they really had the ability to just terminate us and then us not compete with them. And we were, we both, my roommate and I ended up going to law school. Cause we said, you know what? We got to learn to read contracts. If we're going to be [00:03:00] entrepreneurs, I guess step one is to read the contract, you know?
And so we both went to law school and partway through law school. I love law school, uh, transactional stuff. But partway through, it was like, you know what? I need to, I need numbers also. And so I jumped into the MBA program. Uh, as well, uh, at, at Wash U. And, and so, you know, I then had a mixed career. I started out, um, in the law department at Union Pacific Railroad in, in Nebraska, but very quickly, again, law was never enough for me.
And they said, hey, why don't you run our air freight division? And then I was back into a business and then had a really fun, uh, entrepreneurial career, you know. Some, some great successes, some not as successful. And you really learn from the ones that aren't successful, by the way, because when you're successful, you just think, of course I am, I'm a very, uh, capable person, you know?
Um, and so I ended up, um, uh, in, in [00:04:00] entrepreneurship and then started, um, I spoke at a conference that I was asked to speak at and somebody said, you should write a book and then I started my. career of speaking and writing about, uh, I don't know, 12 years ago and, and started really love, uh, love it because, and then I started teaching about eight years ago.
Um, it's really true. You really don't know something until you try and teach it. Like I can give any, I can take anybody who thinks they know a topic and put them across from a bunch of people and say, go. And literally after 10 minutes, you're like, I don't know what else to say. Um, it's the depth of your knowledge is really tested by your ability to convey it.
And, and so once I started, uh, writing and teaching, I started researching and writing and teaching and boy, your brain is dormant almost unless you're doing those things, right? Because in life, in business, our [00:05:00] business lives, we increasingly focus on narrower and narrower things. And so our brain gets one or two spots that get very heavily used and the rest of it starts to decay.
But if you engage in Doing things like you're doing this podcast is terrific. Thank you. If you're doing podcasts and writing books and doing speaking and doing teaching the rest of your brain, which may have become somewhat dormant comes alive and, and it's just a very exciting, exciting thing to happen.
And you just literally, it happens incrementally, but you wake up one day and you say, wow, you know, I'm, I think about so many things. Instead of just thinking about fewer and fewer things and, and, and if you look at the physiology, your brain actually designs physical ruts. Those synapses that get used, get used, and the ones that don't, kind of, kind of decay.
So, it's that kind of a, it's, it's that kind of a, uh, a big change.
[00:05:58] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Yeah, that's one thing I noticed [00:06:00] too, is the more you can keep your brain engaged in different things.
It makes you think differently and it keeps you alive. And I see that other Aspects of my life, I think, better and quicker. Is that what you find too, with constant learners? We blow it a lot. That's one thing you got to be willing to fail a lot. I think that it keeps us better engaged and allows us to speak to a greater number of people that way, because we're always learning.
[00:06:25] Cash Nickerson: Yeah, I love that concept and the life of learning, lifelong learning is something that's thrown around now and then, but once you actually do it. , you get it and you find yourself picking up more books than you did before because you can't speak about something until you research it.
And so that that cycle of, of discovery, and that cycle of sharing. Uh, you know, it's in your view on people becomes much more tight and, and pronounced when we're young, we play with each other all the time. And that's what [00:07:00] we do. And we engage with each other. We roll in the dirt and we do all these fun things as children.
And then we're increasingly pushed to a book life and to an office life and to a almost a, an in, uh, a dehumanizing. Way, right? And then once you get in, as soon as you start sharing knowledge and stuff, you're back in touch with the sort of human side of things, your humanness, their humanness, and that's just so cool and so powerful and such a different way to go through life.
You notice things that you wouldn't have noticed if you didn't have, if you hadn't rebuilt those synapses.
[00:07:40] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: And that really ties into when we start talking about negotiation, which you do, and you say that, hey, guys, negotiation is part of everyday life. Your example, right there, when you talk about as a kid, you just go out and play.
You learn your games. You make up new rules. You learn what other people are doing. You learn what other How to communicate better with them. And we lose that [00:08:00] at some part of our lifetime. I think, like you said, when we start going to school and it starts getting very regiment, we lose the ability to communicate.
How do you explain that to people about negotiation is really about communication and listening to the other people effectively.
[00:08:16] Cash Nickerson: Wow. That's, that's a lot. That's a lot, but I like it. It's a great question. I mean, Let's take a simple negotiation example to show you how, how much we mess people up as we go through life.
You know, it's like if I took a hundred dollars or ten dollars, doesn't matter. And I put it, and I've done this experiment when I spoke at UT Austin to a business school class recently. If, if I put a hundred dollars in front of two business students, get two volunteers and I say, Okay, whatever book you're using for negotiation, negotiate this hundred dollars.
Now, interestingly, they will, they generally do this. The one will say, how about [00:09:00] 99? They'll say 98, 97. They'll go through all this rigmarole, but you take two kids and say, hey, listen, I've got this 10. They'll immediately say, want to split it? You want to split it? You want to share it? They're in touch with fairness.
Okay, somewhere along the way, those business school students, you know, lost touch with just fundamental human fairness. There's a candy bar. We split it, you know, try and go through some algorithm to figure it out. We just know. And so the human side of negotiation is very powerful and is not dealt with enough.
In the negotiation literature, you take a book like Getting to Yes, which has been out there 40 years, which everybody says, this is the book on negotiation. I think it's a horrible book. The first principle of it is separate the people from the problem. Are you kidding me? People are the problem and people are the opportunity.
What are you going to separate the people from the problem? It's [00:10:00] just horrific. And yet that's been the sort of basic book that's been used to teach people negotiation for 40 years. The human side of it is everything. That relationship is everything. You know, how you deal with somebody across from negotiation is strongly driven by who they are.
Is it your child? Is it a friend? Is it something you don't particularly like? How you approach what I'll call the candy bar problem. I put a Snickers bar between two people. I mean, if it's your child, you may give it all to them. If it's your child, you may say, you know, none of it. You had two cavities last time.
But, and if it's your enemy, you say, I don't want to deal with you. I'm going to go get a lawyer to negotiate the candy bar. You know, there's all these tensions that are going through you as you're sitting with the candy bar. And they're very human. So I spent a lot of time trying to understand. All those tensions that humans feel when they, when they negotiate something everyday life.
Yes, you are. If you have a significant other, or even a [00:11:00] relatively insignificant other, you are constantly negotiating with them. Probably 80 to 90 percent of what you do with them is negotiation. What do you want for breakfast? Where are you going to have dinner? You know, what do you want to do over the weekend?
Et cetera. It's all like somebody puts something up, somebody responds, and there's a ping pong back and forth. Uh, and, and sometimes things blow up, you know, and, and a lot of that's because we're not in touch with attention. And so we either try to avoid it or we overreact to it. And so my, my newest work is really about all those tensions you face as you negotiate and how to use them, how to share them with the other side so that you don't feel like you're taking it on yourself.
[00:11:48] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Can you give us an example on how we can do that better?
[00:11:52] Cash Nickerson: Yeah, most everybody you talk to, who's an adult has bought a car, leased a car, done a car deal, and if you watch how [00:12:00] they manage tension, the car dealer, they quickly take control of all the tensions. So they control the relationship.
That is, they control who they send to you. You walk up to a car dealer, someone's going to approach you. That's not an accident. Whoever it is, it's intentional. It may be somebody new. It could be a lot of things. You walk into the store and there's a sticker on everything. They're kind of controlling the outcome.
Right. They're telling you, hey, here's our, here's what we expect the outcome to be. Um, they have tremendous power because they're doing this all day long, every day. And you're doing it once every few years. Um, you don't have anybody with you, so you don't have an agent. You don't have a team. They've got the team.
They've got an agent. Um, and, and timing wise, uh, you know what? They're going to control both the process and the timing. Pretty soon they're going to say, Hey, why don't you come into my office? [00:13:00] And you do, you do everything they tell you. And then you sit down in the office and then they go back and forth with their team, negotiating the price and they're, they're not going to let you leave until you do something and keep bringing your contracts.
So if you look at it, they're controlling all those, what I call tensions. And you know, it's very easy to sort of flip that around and flip the script. Once you know the tensions you're being dealt with. When they send you somebody, you just say, you know what? I really like to deal with the sales manager or your top sales person.
That's otherwise I'll go somewhere else. Okay. Guess what? You just to control the relationship. Now you say, I don't care what the sticker says. I did my own research. I don't want to see it. Here's what I think. Okay. You did just taken away the outcome. When they say, why don't you come to my office? You can say, no, I'm fine.
Let's just stay here. You know, just say no to all the things that they're controlling. And when it comes to timing and they think you're ready, you say, you know what? I'll be back in a few days. I'm not buying today. And you know what? You [00:14:00] could go with somebody, take somebody with you so that you have your own team.
There's a funny joke. About a guy who goes to, uh, buy a car and he goes through this whole process I've just described back and forth, you know, go to the finance director. Oh, I think I can get him down to this and I can get him down to that and I can get him and back and forth. And finally, they bring you this signed contract and say, okay, we've met everything.
And the guy turns to the car salesperson that says, great, now I have to go check with my wife, you know, so , you can. If you understand these tensions as they come at you, you can flip the script in essence and and take take control. Uh, and that's what you need to do. So, and the same is true in everyday life.
We spend too much. If it feels, I tell people, I get some, I call the other day said, well, I'm feeling uncomfortable about buying this house. And I said, well, think about your feelings segment. Are you feeling rushed? Is it a timing issue? Do you not like the salesperson? Is it this? Is it that? And then as I went through, they didn't, they weren't happy with any of the attentions.
I said, [00:15:00] okay, we'll just walk away. Just say, I'm sorry, I'm just not comfortable. Thank you. And sure enough, they came back. I said, take the tension out of you, relax and share it with the other side because they deserve to feel they deserve to feel it too. So that you make a better decision together. Anyway, that's an example.
[00:15:19] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Yeah, that's why people like me use Carvana, or you might buy a house directly for sale from the owner. So you take away that back and forth on. And I think it gets to really what is a win-win scenario. You have something that you're willing to give up for X amount of money for these reasons.
And then on the other side, you say, look, I'm willing to pay you this based on these reasons, and very quickly coming to a meeting of the minds versus having someone else is trying to take a cut out of the middle. So, in negotiations, it's really about win-win, not win-lose. And at some point, it seems like we get trained that it has to be a win-lose.
And I'm like, that's not how you get relationships. To go ahead and be [00:16:00] ongoing. And I think businesses miss that a lot of times too. They forget about the, um, acquisition costs of a customer and how much that is versus the retention costs. Is that what you see too, when you talk in negotiation?
[00:16:13] Cash Nickerson: Yeah. Really excellent question. Rebecca, I will say this. You're showing the importance of the relationship. If it's a customer, you can't love them enough for the reasons you said.
And what tends to happen is they get loved for about 90 days and then it falls off. If it's your employee, same thing. These are invaluable people that interact with your customers, that interact with other people. The same can happen in a negotiation. If you want something, If you're not willing to form a good relationship with the people that you want it from, then you're going to lose, you know, and, but, but, but there are times when you're just distributing something.
Okay. Um, like a hundred dollars or a candy bar or whatever, but by and large, the people are so important. [00:17:00] If you go, I've gone to Istanbul and negotiated in the old grand bazaar. Um, now that would seem like a non win-win environment. It's not so much focusing on win-win. This, this particular person I bought a scarf from said, you know, come in.
We spent 30 minutes talking about what it's like to live in Istanbul, his family, our family, and, and his emphasis was, I want you happy. That's why we're a customer. We spent 30 minutes getting very, just forming a great relationship. And then the deal seemed so easy. And so reasonable and everybody was happy at the end.
I didn't tell him I was a negotiation scholar, but afterwards I talked to him and , he said, he studies people. That's how he decides how to approach a negotiation. So, I just think the people side of it is absolutely critical. And of course, that brings home the need for incredibly good.[00:18:00]
Observational listening skills. We're all trained to talk, but we're not trained to listen. And that, and by listen, I mean broad listening, um, observation. So I can see, I'm, I'm focused on you. And when you're speaking, I might just not be focused on you. I'll sit where I can see the most people. Cause I want to see how people are reacting.
To what you're saying, not just how you're doing. So people sometimes think, oh, the intensity is you just study the speaker. Now, you learn a lot from watching people other people watch the speaker. So I always said, no matter negotiating or a presentation, wherever, where I can see the most people. And it's not going to be at the back.
It's more likely time in a front corner. So I can look back and kind of see everybody's reaction.
[00:18:48] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Do you think that we are taught negotiation skills? Maybe incorrectly anymore. I know one of the things that I tell people, like you said, active listening, um, [00:19:00] critical thinking, looking to see what is their main point.
And then what's their sub points? Because sometimes what they say is an objection. Really, it's 1 of the sub points that you find out that is the real root. The reason why they're not doing business but it seems like we don't do as often anymore.
We're not taught that as to do that as often anymore.
[00:19:19] Cash Nickerson: Yeah, , negotiation is a process of discovery. Right, because this is a sad fact, but it's a real fact. Most people don't know what they want. They think they know, but they don't so. You, you need to spend a lot of time trying to understand what that person wants.
And guess what? You don't know what you want. You may think you want something, but really another thing would make you happy. So to the extent you can get a great conversation going around what you care about, why you care about it, whether it may ultimately change what a transaction looks like. [00:20:00] And so , I consider a process of discovery, ask and listen, ask and listen, ask and listen, went into a negotiation yesterday.
to buy a company representing a client. And I said, and he had written, you know, a ton of talking points. There was nothing wrong per se with the talking points. But I said to him, I said, this will be a success if we talk less than 20 percent of the time and they talk more than 80%. And there's actual studies in a sales context that show 80 20 ratios are more successful.
80 percent of the time listening, 20 percent talking, that those are, Scientifically proven to be more likely to lead to a successively positive result.
[00:20:46] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Is that because you're listening to what's on their heart on what they need, or is it because they like listening to themselves to talk? So they think that you're like a great person because you're just letting it expound.
[00:20:57] Cash Nickerson: It's certainly all that. You [00:21:00] know, I think it's it's because they talk themselves into things. Um, it's flattering to have someone else speak. It's respectful to have someone else speak, and it helps them think through, you can watch them sort of discover what they want as they, uh, as they speak, and you can ask, you ask questions if you don't understand something, say, are you mean this or are you mean that, which is, you know, what most people consider active or dynamic listening, but I think it's all those things, it's just incredibly powerful, if I tell you something, your initial reaction will be, Maybe negative and say, well, I don't know why I said that.
But if you say it, it's so much more powerful.
[00:21:44] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Why do you think so many negotiations with businesses for mergers and acquisitions that after that occurs? It ends up being that a lot of them were bad acquisitions, that what we thought you were saying wasn't really what you [00:22:00] were saying in the other side says, but what we thought you were saying, we thought we were doing.
Why do you think that occurs so much? if In mergers and acquisitions, as an example, both sides are supposed to be really actively listening to each other because we see that over and over and over again. If it's not in the press, usually it'll be about a couple years later where, they spun the company out.
[00:22:20] Cash Nickerson: Yeah, that's a really good question. And I've seen a ton of M& A that did not work. Um, and I think in part it's because there isn't candid behavior in organizations, right? It's like people hear that the CEO wants this company, or, you know, this is the target and everybody goes at it and there's not sufficient reflection about whether it's a good thing or a bad thing.
Instead. It's just well, go get it. And so everybody goes and gets it. And when contrary information surfaces, they find a way to deal with it. I remember when I was young working on. An acquisition at the railroad of a [00:23:00] trucking company. And I remember the trucking company probably was worth, you know, 500Million dollars and we bid like 400Million and the owner said, oh, it's not for sale.
And our numbers supported going to 500 and he said, no, I won't take 500Million. It's not for sale. And so then. Each time the deal people would sort of. Alter the formulas so it would make it. Work and we ultimately paid like 1. 2 billion for this particular trucking company and ultimately sold it or spun it back out for about half that price.
But again, companies very much exhibit, uh, groupthink potentially, and there's nobody in the room who can safely say, do we know what we're doing? Is this okay? There's remember the emperor has no clothes. There's no little kid saying, you know, the emperor is not dressed, you know, um, and so that's something that, you know, you always [00:24:00] need to make sure you're building in some anti group think structure to help you, uh, avoid those major, uh, bad, bad decisions.
And so that's what happens from the acquirers perspective from, from the acquirees perspective. You know, I have less experience where people who got bought are, are unhappy. But, uh, I, the other example I use is the, the Twitter acquisition that Elon Musk did was a horrible deal. But he just, you know, he didn't, he didn't form a relationship with the people.
He despised them. He didn't, Think about timing. He just wrote a, you can see all this online. He wrote a text and said, I'm buying your company and I'm paying this much and you'll like it. You know, well, in the time period, fairly quickly after that Tesla stock went down, um, which was the source of his power.
Right. And, and, and so he did everything [00:25:00] wrong around those tensions, right? He didn't use a lawyer. He did it himself. He just wrote these texts and emails, and this is how it's going to be. He didn't use timing to his advantage. He didn't certainly care what anybody else said. And you look at that deal and he paid like 45 billion for something that might be worth 12 today.
Okay, that's what a bad deal looks like. That's exactly what you're describing. And that's just somebody who ignored all these Elements that I'm talking about and you can see it every single one and he just like, oh, I probably should have an agent not check. No, I probably should include my team in this.
No, I probably should get to know the people at Twitter to see what I might need afterwards or whatever and what do you do? That's a best example of 1 of the most horrible recent deals made and how it happened.
[00:25:54] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: I have venture capitalists and people like that who bring me in because they're like, Rebecca, we need somebody to look in the compliance [00:26:00] and the governance and the privacy and all that.
And we need you to find out what really isn't being said. But I know that when I've been on the other side of mergers and acquisitions, they don't like those naysayers. I'm like, the naysayers will really go ahead and give you a better idea of what's the return on efficiency, the return on investment, if you're really paying fair value and what you're going to have to pay for ongoing costs to actually do it right.
When you're talking about Elon thing I do like about that situation is, It is some actions afterwards. I'm not going to get into about how we treat people and stuff like that. But one, he publicly admitted he didn't make the best decision and he didn't do it the right way he let ego drive himself, but I'm not just going to walk away and dump the company.
I'm going to rebuild it and I'm going to make it viable. You might disagree on how that's happening, but I think owning your failures and picking yourself back up. And keep moving forward is a strong lesson to be learned from Elon Musk in the Twitter, um, [00:27:00] universe. Um, because that, like you said, that was a global oops.
And I don't see enough people doing that, too. They want to, like, hide the bad mergers and acquisitions and not always own the lessons that we've learned.
[00:27:12] Cash Nickerson: 100%. As I, as I may have alluded to, but we always learn from what didn't go well, not from what went well. We very much, if good things happen, it's because we're brilliant.
And if bad things happen, it rained. Um, but the truth, I totally agree with you on his reaction. It was a real wake up call to the Silicon Valley when he laid off over half the staff and the company kept running. Think about it. That's, that's a wake up call to over employed, uh, capital backed companies. A big, big wake up call.
And he is sticking with it. Um, you know. They, they got a good price for their shareholders, the sort of Twitter management, but they didn't do the world a favor, uh, in terms of, you know, they just sort of like all [00:28:00] left and said, good luck. I mean, I think you have a little more responsibility than that. They could have done a better what they should have done.
What they did was initially, they just tried to fight and adopted a poison pill, the, the, the, the Twitter company itself. And then they were like, Okay, just take it. It would have been wonderful had there been some dialogue between the two. Um, you know, that would have, like I said, the relationship is so important and the ability to understand where each other, you know, we're sort of coming from.
But I'm a big Elon fan along the lines of just what you talked about. He's not given up. He's still sorting it. It's got tremendous social value.
[00:28:43] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: I think the other thing, too, is there's a lot of great talent. That were tied up in a company that was that's been proven that they're very heavy and not being efficient, but having top talent and that top talent has gone on to many, many, many companies. Now, in [00:29:00] those companies are really doing very well.
So that's another positive thing. That was the downstream that looked at all the companies that benefit from the talent who now are doing a lot of great work. I should say more great work for the global at large. Positive ripple effect from what some people consider a negative .
I think the overall positive ripple effect is going to be great long term.
[00:29:22] Cash Nickerson: It's going to be interesting , now that he's moving into Austin, Texas, which is a very different culture than the Silicon Valley.
[00:29:28] Dr. Rebecca Wynn: I agree. Our time has totally flown by. If you haven't already, please like, subscribe, and share the show. Also subscribe to the Soulful CXO Insights newsletter available on LinkedIn. All of Cash's information and Will be in the description as well as a link to all of his books and his upcoming book that's coming out in November.
Cash, thank you so much for sharing your insights and wisdoms and being with us on today's show.
[00:29:56] Cash Nickerson: Thank you, Dr. Wynn. What a wonderful conversation. Thank you for your [00:30:00] time.