Are you paying too high of a price for your career? Find out how to achieve work-life balance and thrive in the corporate world. Discover the secrets to success in technology and corporate leadership. And, learn from a seasoned executive leader and CIO about building high-performance cultures.
Guest: Teresa Devine, CEO at Teresa Devine Company
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/teresadevine/
Website | https://teresadevine.com/
Host: Dr. Rebecca Wynn
On ITSPmagazine 👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/rebecca-wynn
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Episode Description
In this podcast episode, Dr. Rebecca Wynn's guest is Teresa Devine, CEO of Teresa Devine Company and creator of 24-7 Purpose. Teresa shares her journey from starting in the dot-com space to becoming a CIO and CISO for top 500 companies. She discusses the importance of building strong relationships, finding alignment with the people you work with, and the significance of caring for others as a leader. Don't miss this insightful conversation on driving high-performance and happy cultures in the workplace.
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Dr. Rebecca Wynn: [00:00:00] Welcome to the soulful CXO. I'm your host, Dr. Rebecca Wynn. We are pleased to have with us today, Teresa Devine. Teresa is the CEO of Teresa Divine Company and creator of 24/7 Purpose. She's well known as an accomplished CIO for Fortune 500 and private equity companies where she retired this year. She was recognized many times as a top CIO for helping large companies learn how to build their next generational digital business.
Her main focus was on large enterprises and navigating the complexities of digital disruption to develop digital transformation security strategies. Today, she continues to work as a speaker, thought leader, board member, writer, coach, and leadership trainer. As a trainer and keynote speaker, she speaks from real world executive leadership experience and provides proven methods to drive high performance and happy cultures.
Her work has been featured on Oprah's Angel Network, Brainz, Medium, Patheos, just to name a few. [00:01:00] Teresa, it is so great seeing you again. Welcome to the show.
Teresa Devine: Thank you, Dr. Rebecca. It's wonderful to be here. It's a privilege and an honor. So thank you for having me.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: I always find it fascinating how people got started in technology.
And then for you, you moved all the way up to the ladder to go ahead and to be a CIO and CISO for advising top 500 companies. How did your journey start and how did you get to be CIO that you are?
Teresa Devine: It certainly wasn't my plan, but through a couple of opportunities, I started out in the dot com space and that was over 20 years ago now.
Help the company build their dot com. And through that process, I realized that I have some project management skills. So I took on managing large software development teams, some offshore, some onshore, and that led to an incredible opportunity to be a CIO at a large Fortune 500 company here in the Georgia area.
And from there, ended up going [00:02:00] off on my own and becoming an interim CIO, helping mostly private equity companies go from distressed or just serious transformational type work helping them turn their it department around and ultimately helping them grow the business. So that's what I've been doing over the last 20 plus years.
And a little bit about the background of my career. It's been quite a journey.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: So you recently retired. What led you to determine that you're going to retire and take another aspect of your career?
Teresa Devine: That's a good question, and it's one that's taken a few years for me to finally retire for the last time.
So I admit that it took me three tries, and I'm pretty confident that this will be the last time of walking away from the career. My faith in Christ has led me to this new mission. And I believe that we serve lots of missions throughout our life and they don't have to be in ministry. They can be in the workplace and most of my work obviously has always been in the [00:03:00] workplace in the corporate world.
And I love that work. And I think that we are able to share our faith in ways that we are Christ like individuals. We help people grow in their careers. And I certainly helped a few people. Do that. And I'm excited to be able to share that experience and help others succeed. I think that's the ultimate reward when we're working in the, corporate world or anywhere in working world.
But what happened to me over many years I've been a Christian believer since I was a child. So always believe, but I certainly haven't always been in God's will. So through that period of time and working in such a demanding career, I was always struggling and, felt an anxiety around what am I doing to make a larger impact?
What is my relationship to God? I wasn't a mature Christian for a few decades, and so that took a while for me to get there. And through that experience, what led me to realize was that for me, [00:04:00] I couldn't serve both the corporate high demand career job and also do the work that I believe that God is asking me to do now.
So I think it's really important for Christians to understand that first and foremost, it's all about learning and growing our faith and then making sure that we're aligned with God's true purpose, which we, many of us get messed up. I did for many years. And then once we're aligned with him and we really can discern what He's asking us to do in our lives, then that's the time to make decisions about what we're doing for work, what we're doing in our, with our hobbies, with all of life and the way that we serve him both and for me, I've learned over the years that it's, everything, everybody and all circumstances.
It's not a compartmentalization of our faith, but it's weaving our understanding of God and being Christ like with every individual and every situation that we encounter throughout our day.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: How did you go about doing that? Because it's [00:05:00] the same concept, even if you are not a Christian or aren't serving Christ, about trying to find out really what you're, some people might call it, find your flow, find what is your internal calling, your internal peace.
So then you can do the best in the world that you possibly can. How did you go about determining what that was?
Teresa Devine: Yeah, that's a really insightful question. For me, it was years of floundering and I can only speak to being a believer. I just don't have the knowledge to speak to other faiths, of course, but and so I wouldn't possibly try to understand.
Their point of view, but certainly respect that. And so for me, it was a a process of understanding that I, was, somewhat tormented in my mind. Some of that was from past pain and hurts that needed to be healed by God. So that was a big part of it. But it was really [00:06:00] understanding that what I lacked the most was the ignorance of his Biblical Word.
And once. That's finally got through my thick head. Then I started to learn and understand his word. And only through that, could I understand what is his will? Truly what are God's ways? And then from there, he leads us into that area of understanding, knowledge, confidence, clarity, right? And then we can start to hear and listen to the Holy Spirit in a more direct way.
So he can lead us but before not understanding his ways through biblical understanding, really, it was just floundering and just trying to figure things out on my own, which failed miserably.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Yeah, I can hear you. I can hear you on that one. So did you, I know some people use like diagrams they look at where spirituality and physical wellbeing and mental wellbeing and how they [00:07:00] intersect and then find that inner sanctum on, on how to go ahead and find their true core.
Self, I would say, or is that what you had to do too, or did you only go on a spiritual walk? Cause I know for me, when, with my physical health is not at its most optimum, then every other aspect of my life really falls apart. So did you find that you had to go not only on a spiritual journey, but you also had to go on a health journey and maybe on a mental journey and different areas like that as well too.
So you can go ahead and find out what your, as you would say, your true calling is.
Teresa Devine: Yeah, and so just to for, my understanding and what, I believe God shared with me and to answer your question I, tried to retire the 1st time and went to Africa. I have certainly done some things thinking that, oh, my purpose must be over there.
And my meeting, that's where I'm supposed to be serving. So I've taken trips to Africa trips to, to Haiti [00:08:00] and certainly there's great work involved in doing that. But, to answer your question for me, it was coming to the realization, which is the basis for Christianity is full surrender. Me trying to figure it out on my own not understanding biblical word, biblical truth that I was constantly. Seeking something that was all about me. And that's the opposite of the Christian life, right? We are to surrender to the Lord and life becomes all about serving him. And the glory in that is one we're serving.
For his glory, but we get all the benefits and all the adventure and all of the great rewards that come with that. Yes, to answer your question. Certainly. I was on many years of that type of searching. But really searching in the wrong. places. However, of course, God is going to meet us where we are.
So it was actually in Africa where he released to [00:09:00] me and showed me through some scripture and also a devotional that I received that Serving him is everywhere.
It didn't have to be in Africa. It can be if that's where he's asking that person to go and serve in a mission. But it's also right here in my neighborhood. And so I didn't understand that. I really thought the purpose was all about this big grand thing, this big event, or this big contribution or legacy that I was supposed to leave behind.
Very, distorted view of what his purpose really is. And his purpose for believers is all about loving the Lord, your God, with all of your heart, soul, might, and strength and loving others as we love ourselves. And that's found in Mark 12:28-31. And that's what really revolutionized and gave me revelation about that scripture that I'd heard many times, but I never understood that is our ultimate purpose.
It's not about doing things. It's about. Becoming Christlike and being that way towards [00:10:00] other people and ourselves. But to go back to your other point about health and wellbeing, and I believe all of these things are symptoms, of areas in our life that may not be, might not be aligned with God. Now, in some cases, there's just diseases that are completely out of people's control, and that doesn't mean that they're not aligned with God.
I don't want to make that misunderstanding at all, but, for me, it was many symptoms and most of it was about dealing with past pain and healing that I needed to face with his help instead of on my own. And through that process and understanding, that was a big part. So I think it's, it is symptom based as you described.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Yeah. I think a lot of times we feel when we're feeling uncomfortable as human beings, it's cause we're really not where we should absolutely be.
And it might not be every aspect of your life, but as you have brought it out. I think internally we like [00:11:00] to help other people. We like to be servant oriented. And one of the things that I tell them when people are down and they're depressed and things aren't going right in their life, that I say, seek out a way to help somebody else.
Whether it might be even just helping them to the car with their groceries, whether it's they're walking by themselves and older person, maybe they want someone to walk with them on that walk that day or something like that. When you serve other people in some aspect, it really feeds into you as a human and people forget about that.
And I think one of the reasons why a lot of us are getting burned out and stressed and things along those lines in our jobs is because we get so focused on career. And I've done this myself. I'm guilty myself that those other aspects of my life have been on the wayside. And that's the one thing I think we see quite a bit today where people get of balance.
And when you get out of [00:12:00] balance, you start feeling. Uncomfortable. But what we have to be careful about is that we lean into them working more and we really should lean into looking at those other aspects of your life. I know you do a lot of coaching. Is that what you see too? When people come to you for coaching and training that they're really out of balance in their life and that's why they're struggling so much.
Teresa Devine: Yes, Rebecca, that's a great point. And that is the two most common reasons that I hear people have this innate desire to mature their faith and to get closer to God was really more of the draw. But you hit on a great point before I get to that coaching question. One of the biggest symptoms that pushed me out of the corporate life for good. And then certainly on the 3rd try was what you just spoke about. It was putting work. 1st, I was a [00:13:00] workaholic were crazy insane hours to and I just believe that's what I was supposed to do.
And not because anyone was driving me to do that. Let's be clear because there's a lot of bad rap and you may agree or disagree. With the corporate world, but I was never in a position where my my CEO was driving me to work that hard. He was, the, multiple that I had, they were always results driven, but they were typically sitting me down and say you need to slow down, you're going to burn out.
So I have some amazing mentors and leaders. So I just want to shout out to a little bit of positiveness around the corporate world. But anyway, my, my job took over. I don't have children, but I have an incredible, amazing husband of almost 30 years. And so the job took over and started to impact every relationship in my life.
I never forget the one year that I forgot my mother's birthday. And that was just a big deal because I never did that. And that was one of many. [00:14:00] Wake up calls that the next day when I realized I missed her birthday and I call her, so sorry and so remorseful that this was a moment where this is off this is way out of balance and I, my personality and the type of work that I did, I just, I was not the type that could turn it off.
So there's people like me out there, and there's others who can do that. They can figure out how to create boundaries and how to set certain parameters for their life. And I coach people on how to do that. So I'm never trying to get someone to leave the corporate world to go into ministry. And that's one of the myths about the work that I do.
But you're right. They come to me. Either they're burnout or they're just confused or they're a new Christian and they're just looking for guidance. Like how do I get to the next level? I just don't feel like I know what I'm doing. I don't really understand this how to be aligned with the will of God.
What does that even mean? These are all the questions that I had as a believer. And these are some of the things that I help [00:15:00] people in the coaching and also help them understand. That they're serving from God's strength as their foundation, but there are individual strengths that we all have.
And I help them unleash those strengths and spiritual gifts so that they can be more impactful and serve the Lord with more energy and more joy there should be a joyous experience and not a, dreaded activity that so many of us get into because we just don't understand what it is and how it all works.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: I agree. I think one of the things that's easy to do is as a human, as we want people to be how we perceive them to be and not how they really are. And then we get into that relationship, working relationship, we're like, there are not the people we thought they were, but we weren't listening to who they are.
And then we have trouble adapting to That That's what I see quite a bit. That's one thing I tell people when you're interviewing with a company, don't allow them to only interview [00:16:00] you. You really need to be interviewing them. Are they the type of people who resonate with you? Are they the type of people who are on the same path as you are? Because, if not, you're really not going to be happy. And a lot of times we take a position because we need the paycheck. And I know that everyone has to pay their bills and things along those lines. I understand that. But the one thing is you have to ask beyond the paycheck, are you paying too high of a price?
I know I've taken positions before in the past. A lot of times where, what you're asking me was impossible to deliver regardless of the time and effort that I put in. There was just no way to meet that criteria. The price to pay was really too high and it affected me physically for a long period of time after I left that engagement.
I felt that in my gut. But I said, yes, [00:17:00] and went in really have to listen to your gut and be willing to say no, because there was probably a, an opportunity that was around the corner. That was the better fit for me. That I didn't take because of fear, uncertainty, and doubt what happens if I don't take this engagement, will it be a month or 2 months or maybe 3 months before I find a a better consulting gig?
Do you find that as well, too, on people not really listening to their inner voice to say a better yes to opportunities and be willing to say no to opportunities? They really should be saying no to.
Teresa Devine: Yeah, certainly. I've done that myself as well and it doesn't take long, right? To figure out that. Oh, this might not be the best fit and it could be both ways.
So I've always been of the mindset and I, completely. Understand people that are in positions. I think about single moms [00:18:00] and I think their decision making process is way different than someone like me who doesn't have children to care for. So I think it's, sometimes it's it's easy for us to say we probably shouldn't have done that, but maybe sometimes they're in a position where they just, have to and then hopefully from that, that mistake or, that setback, if you will that will lead to something greater for them. But you're right. If that gut feeling is telling us, don't do it, don't do it. And you can't even explain why sometimes it could be the Lord protecting us away from that person experience, or he just has something better for us. He has a different door to open. So I think it's really tricky, but I think you're absolutely correct in that discernment.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: You had mentioned that when you were at work, you were all in. I was that way too. And you become so invested that one of the things is you don't realize that everybody around you is not as [00:19:00] invested as you are.
What words of wisdom would you give a person who's overly committed to work? They want to go ahead and be a little less invested, but they have the reputation on always being the go to person. How do you start backing off from that to gain your resiliency back in the workplace?
Teresa Devine: Ooh, that's an awesome question.
It's one of those questions where I would say, okay, what would I tell my younger self if I could go back? And the funny thing is Dr Rebecca that I had all the most incredible support. So I'm not sure I could have done it. I don't want to discourage anyone from doing that. But my first piece of advice would be to go to your manager and explain to them what's going on and why.
Maybe you don't even understand why you're doing what you're doing. There was a part of me that didn't quite understand it, but I, love the addiction of performance. I love the addiction of. [00:20:00] Seeing things improve and seeing the business happier. I loved when my team went from being, discouraged and just beaten down pre previously to a happy productive team that just wanted to contribute their best.
So I would, I really was addicted to all of those things. Obviously my, marriage was super important to me. So that was a big driver for me to realize I have got to get this, Balance back out. So I would go down the path of doing the boundaries and not staying in the office until eight o'clock.
There was no reason for me to be there at that time and leave at a decent hour. Things like that. But I think the best advice would be go to your manager. If your manager is not supportive, then I would say go to HR because if you don't want to leave the company, you love the company and you love your work, you shouldn't have to leave because there's a unrealistic expectation like the one you just [00:21:00] described earlier. Go back to the manager and say, I would love to be able to produce this result. But in order for me to do that we're going to either have to extend the deadline. We're going to have to adjust the budget. Something needs to change.
And I think when you go to people with a problem, but you bring solutions and options. I think it's a much better conversation. Then I'm just working too hard. So I think it's, it really is coming up with, solutions around that and presenting that to the manager or whoever the supervisor is.
And if you don't get support there, I do encourage people to go to HR. I would encourage my team members if I wasn't supporting them in the right way to go speak to Hr. I think that's important. I think people's mental health, obviously their families and work life. I call it harmony because I don't think balance is achievable for most people.
When you talk about true equal balance. I like the word harmony, because I think it's less, set up for [00:22:00] failure kind of word. So I use harmony instead of balance.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Yeah, I haven't known too many people who've had success in going to HR with those type of issues. If you're out there and you've had success please leave me a comment.
I love to hear the story of the success. I haven't heard too many of them, but going with. Why do we need additional time? What areas maybe do we need to cut and things along those lines definitely is a good thing. I would also say that if, you're constantly being pushed to do sub quality work, then maybe going ahead and having a discussion about what is a realistic win?
For the company, are they just trying to make one more inch and you're trying to go ahead and get it all the way down to make a touchdown. Maybe it's your expectations of the project isn't aligned with their expectations on the project. And so maybe going ahead and having [00:23:00] discussions on that way, if it is an unrealistic expectation on their part, and there's no way to win, then maybe going ahead and having a committee meeting or something along those lines and seeing where everybody else is as a group. If you have a very, hard manager when I'm talking about that way is same thing is on the football field or something like that. When you have 8 of you or 12 of you, whatever it is, depending on if it's soccer or if it's American football.
You're all trying to go one directions, a lot easier than you going solo. I think that's a big thing as well, too, that I've learned over a period of time. I'm trying to find those really good people that you can align in the company with, that you have similar goals, that you can support each other goals.
Versus it being us versus them. Is that something that, that you experienced as well in your career? I know for me, especially if you work for startups, it can be us versus them, it's not always that everybody's trying to play well together because a lot of times they're trying to [00:24:00] basically "look at me, we're great" at expensive other people. And I think that's a cost that's pretty high in startups.
Teresa Devine: Yeah, I agree. I don't think I've been in a company that didn't have some level of us versus them. Whether it's the people on the front line, us versus the ivory tower C suite. I think I've heard it all.
I do have a quick message to the leaders on this topic that you just mentioned, which is a lot of times in defense of the leader or the manager. We don't know that there's an issue. And a lot of times the team members are too afraid to bring the problem to the manager for whatever reason. There could be a legitimate reason.
Maybe they were reprimanded so now that unfortunately that has been established. So now they're like, I'm not going to go to the manager I'm just going to get in trouble. So I think that's really important for leaders to ensure that their team members know that it's safe. That they're in a [00:25:00] safe place that they can come to me open door and let's sit down and maybe it's just the two of us.
Let's be professional about it and not bring these things up. And you don't want to, you don't want to surprise your managers or your leaders in a big group meeting. I think that's kind of Leadership 101 but go to your manager. Yeah. privately or the project manager or whoever is in charge of this particular, project that's causing so much, long term hours and things like that, or whatever the issue might be, and just go to them and talk to them.
I think nine out of 10, you find that the leader doesn't have a clue and they're expecting the team to come to them with the problems, but maybe there's just. A personality clash or a fear that's going on that there's this not willing to share. So I think it's a two way street. I think people have to be mature and professional enough to take these problems to the right people and try to come up with solutions to work together.
And many times someone will come my office begrudgingly and say, you know what? I [00:26:00] think we might have to push this deadline and I'm like. Let's talk about it. Let's, see what that looks like. Let's see what we can do and we have a conversation, but there was some fear. I could see see it on their face in the office.
They don't want to talk about extending deadlines because I was always a driver of deadlines. I hope I answered your question there, but I wanted to touch on that other piece.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: I think that's critical. I think one of the things is just what you said is when people come to you and they're having a strong issue and they're trying to deliver, but they can't deliver for whatever reason you have to, as a leader, get out of the the driver of the issue to then coach, mentor, helper, facilitator on helping them with the solution and I see a lot of leaders don't make that conversion. They're like just go talk to this person. I literally am stuck. I am stuck. I'm fear, uncertainty and [00:27:00] doubt. Anxiety and stuff like that. You then need to do the, pat on the back. You need to make that change. And I see a lot of leaders don't know how to do that. Have you always done it in your career? Is that something that you had to acquire?
Teresa Devine: Oh, I certainly had to learn a lot of leadership skills. I, was not trained in leadership early on. Obviously, again, I have some really great CEO mentors. But there are all of us start out a certain way. And we have certain character. Personality types and character ways about us that have to be adjusted and change.
So I would say absolutely over the years, I just decided that I wanted to be better. I wanted to be a better leader. I want to be a better manager. So I invested in that training. And I sought out ways to improve in, in that I'm by no stretch, even close to being a perfect leader or mentor.
But [00:28:00] what I do find is that if you care about people that's the number one criteria for a great leader is that you need to care. And if you don't care, they'll know. And you can't fake it. It's definitely a learned and practiced and intentional, skill that we must acquire if we want to be good leaders and not just good leaders, but inspirational and motivating and supportive and empathetic and all those. All those great things.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Unfortunately, our time has totally run short. What is the best way for people to reach out to you for advisory services , for coaching and learn how to be better human beings and have better teams at work?
Teresa Devine: Thank you, Dr. Rebecca. Yes. Basically go to Teresa divine. com it's no H and you can find out everything about what I'm doing there at the website.
I do offer. coaching to Christians who [00:29:00] want to make a greater impact and who want to build out a spiritual growth plan. And I'm hoping to publish a novel in 2024. So stay tuned for that. And again, it's www.TeresaDivine.Com.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Teresa, thank you so much you are a Soulful CXO.
Teresa Devine: Thank you. My pleasure.